Is it better to buy or rent?
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Are you getting ready to move or re evaluating your housing situation? Keep listening as we discuss things to consider when deciding to buy versus rent. Hello, and welcome to the Wealth Minded MD podcast with your money best friends. I'm Dr. Lisha Taylor. And I'm Dr. Brittne Halford. And of course, we're here to help you build wealth and make good money decisions.
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[LIFE IS LIFING]
All right, so we are opening up the show as per usual with our Life is Lifing segment. All right, Brittne, what is going on in your world? Uh, Lisha, I feel like my to do list is just ever growing.
It is so long and I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed to be honest with you. So there's a lot of just trying to manage my emotions. I don't meditate at all. Sometimes I try to, but I haven't established a habit of meditation. However, whenever I listen to other very successful individuals, they talk about the benefits of meditation.
And I find myself around like the three o'clock hour where I feel the need to either take a nap or to go for a walk or to do something, and because there's just so much that's clouding. And I think there's like these mental energy leaks because my to do list is so long, it hasn't gotten to a point that's manageable.
So that's [00:04:00] kind of what's going on with me. Well, Okay. So it seems like what I'm hearing you say is that there are a lot of tasks that you need to complete. And it seems like somewhere around that midday, which I call the midday slump, you start to feel depleted of your energy. And it seems like what I'm hearing you say is like, you think that meditation is going to help prevent that feeling of depletion?
I think so. If I could prioritize even just five minutes of silence of focusing on something. That, you know, I either did well to kind of make me feel like I'm accomplishing things. I mean , All in all of that is just like, Oh, I'm not getting anything done. This to do list still growing. And, you know, I am a woman who just sees the world kind of with a glass half empty type of perspective.
And it requires a lot of intention for me to reframe. And I do think that that reframe is very helpful. So if I could just budget in those times and moments to take some deep breaths, calm my spirit and Try to focus on the positive. [00:05:00] I do feel that it would be helpful for my productivity and just overall decreasing my overwhelm that I'm experiencing recently.
No, I mean, here I was thinking I just needed coffee. So maybe that's the difference between you and I is like, when I hit that midday slump, I just, you know, grab a cup of coffee and medicate myself with caffeine, but maybe I should. I get more caffeine too, but , sometimes the caffeine just makes me feel like even more wired, you know?
So how are you doing over Yeah. Yeah. So I actually just came back from the sports conference as we're recording this. And I got to tell you, it is one of the highlights. I go to a lot of conferences as I know you do. Sometimes you're presenting, sometimes you're attending. And for this conference, I wasn't presenting anything for the first time in a long time.
Like usually with these sports conferences, either I'm presenting research or I'm presenting a case or helping out with something. And I wasn't this year. And it was so freeing one to not have that added burden or stress or responsibility of knowing that I needed to prepare something [00:06:00] for it. But also like, I just love this conference.
It gives me everything that I would want out of a conference. I mean, partially because I'm with the coolest people, cause it's a sports conference. And so these are like my people. It's like, we get each other. Like it's everything I want, right? So I get to see some of my, , former colleagues because it's a national conference.
So a lot of people go and attend and it's like a conference that also a lot of other people enjoy. So everybody's sort of attempt to go to this conference. I get to see people that I haven't seen in a while. So that provides some joy. The conference itself is always in like a pretty cool location or in a city.
It's in an area of that city. That's pretty walkable. So I usually get to explore the city or go to an area that I hadn't been to in a while. It's also very educational. So that's one of the few conferences where there's a ton of sessions. It's usually five or six days. It's pretty long conference, but a lot of the sessions I find are very high yield.
They know that a sports stocks don't have very good attention spans. And so, so they have like a title of a session, if you will, that's going to last for , let's say two hours. Right. But instead of having [00:07:00] one person speak for two hours. They have industry experts talk about a particular portion of that segment for like 15 minutes.
And so you're getting the high yield of 15 minutes for that little subset. And then a new person is coming on and you get the high yield of that subset for 15 minutes. And it all sort of relates to this larger topic because the speakers change so often. And because this each speaker knows, okay, I don't have two hours to give this didactic session.
I got to hit them with the high yield points. I can't go into everything about everything. I'm just going to tell you, Hey. This is what we saw. This is what we found. This is why it's effective. This is who it might be useful for. It's just so high yield. And so I come back from that conference and I always each year find things that I am going to take with me that are going to really affect the way that I practice medicine.
So I like that it's educational in that way. Also the technology. So they have a conference sessions on an app that you can download, which I think a lot of conferences do that. But because of that, you don't have to attend all the sessions in person. So for me at this conference, [00:08:00] I know so many people that are usually presenting that I will go to the people's who sessions that I know in person to sort of show that support, right?
No one wants to speak to an empty audience, but the other sessions. It's like, okay, I'm going to watch on an app on my phone. I remember one session we were in Baltimore for this conference. And I was like, man, it's a sports conference. We're all really active. I was like, I kind of want to go work out. So I was going to the gym in the hotel that we were staying at, which was amazing and the gym sort of overlooked the baseball stadium and his baseball season, right?
So it was like working out at the gym while I'm watching the baseball game through the clear windows and I've got the session or conference sessions up in my headphones. So it's like I'm learning, but I'm working out and I'm being entertained at the same time, watching this baseball game. I was like, this is amazing.
And then they have all these amazing parties and all this thing. I'm getting everything I want. I'm getting entertainment. I'm getting education. I'm getting networking. I'm getting social. I'm getting city exploration. They need to extend it more days. I'm hyping it up. So [00:09:00] as you can tell, I had a good time.
Yes. And I love that. , I think when you can make education fun, then that's when people are going to show up. And also that they infuse some of what we know about effective teaching . Keep it simple, stupid, and keep me entertained because otherwise, you know, my attention span is only so long.
So I love that they were able to really be effective in that way and not just make it educational, but also restorative for you so that you will come back next year. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everybody's like, yeah, we're coming back. And there's like also a secret, but it's like this party. That's not obvious that it's a party.
So they have like this foundation, right? A lot of conferences and organizations have like a foundation, kind of like a nonprofit arm where they're giving money away or supporting different charities or missions or things like that. Right. So when you register for the conference, you have the option of donating money to the foundation.
And what they say on the registration is that if you donate money to the foundation of a certain amount, I think the minimum might be like 50 bucks or a hundred bucks or something like that. [00:10:00] Then you can get invited to a foundation party that's for donors. And so instead of just saying, Hey, we want to sell tickets to a party.
They're like, okay, we are going to collect donations that every physician can now write off on their taxes. And then we are going to create a free event that is for the donors. And so it's like, you get to have a great time and save money on your taxes and write it off as an expense. And it's included in the registration fee.
So it's getting reimbursed by your job for CME money. So it's just like the marketing, the branding here, the genius organizers. I was like. This is lovely. And the party's always great. You get to network with so many different people from so many different institutions. There's, free drinks. It's a good time, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
[MONEY MISHAP]
It sounds like you had a really, really good time, and I'm very happy for you. My conference was great, but, you know, I wasn't partying like you were. You guys, you, you hospitalists are not as fun as us sports docs, that's what it is. That's the conclusion I'm taking away [00:11:00] from this. All right, so I got to ask with all of that fun, do you have any money confessions or any money mistakes recently?
Yes, I did. I have a big sort of money mishap. So I was just talking about how I was going to this conference, which obviously I had a great time at. I'm excited that I went. The conference was not in Atlanta where I live, so I needed to fly there. Okay, cool. I was like, okay, how am I going to get to the airport?
And for most people, that decision is, am I going to Uber or Lyft to the airport, right, like do some sort of ride share, or am I going to drive and park at the airport? And I knew that they were doing construction around the Atlanta airport, and so some of the parking lots had closed. But if I have a preference, right, if it's going to cost me the same, I like to drive to the airport.
Confession, I'm an impatient person and I don't like having to wait for the ride shares or to like walk 20 miles to get to the ride share location of the airport and then get hit with the surge pricing because we all have to call the Uber in the same location and so then the price is up and then it's just like a whole thing.
So I prefer, [00:12:00] if I can manage it, to sort of drive to the airport park. I know where my car is. As soon as the plane lands, I can grab my luggage and go to my car and just drive myself home. So that is always my preference. And so I was thinking about this because I knew I was going to be out of town for about, what, five ish, maybe six days.
And I was like, oof, I wonder how much that's going to cost at the airport. Now, granted, I can get these expenses, you know, reimbursed or whatever, but you still got to pay for it upfront. So I was really thinking about this and I Googled, right? I was like, okay, I can't remember how much it costs to park at the airport.
So I was like, okay, I'm going to Google, you know, how much does it cost parking Atlanta airport? And what I saw, what I thought I saw was that it was like 13 a day. And so I was like, okay, 13 a day times five days. That's probably going to be, I can't, I don't like doing math on the spot, but that's probably going to be somewhere around what 60, 70 total.
And so I was like, okay, by the time I ride share, it's probably going to cost me. 30 a way each way to the airport. So I might come out even, and if my preference is to drive, [00:13:00] then I'm just going to drive. Right. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to drive to the airport, drive myself to the airport and I'm getting ready to park.
And I'm looking for like the hourly parking or whatever. And so I'm looking for like the cheapest parking that I saw online. That was supposedly 13. You're already laughing. And so I pull up and it's 19. And I get it for people listening who are not doctors and they're like, Lisha, you're being a cheapskate.
It's just a difference of 6. 6 times five days. Brittne, I was like very annoyed because like I did my research supposedly by going to Google, which is like what every non doctor does when they quote unquote do research. But the link that came up seemed official. And I was like, yo, it's gonna cost me like a hundred dollars to park for these five days.
And it's like, okay, I'm gonna get the expense reimbursed. It's not that big of a deal, but I was still annoyed. Would you not be annoyed if something costs you? would not be annoyed for 30. think I've transitioned so much and my husband has helped with this. I've just transitioned to say, you know what, this is what it is.
There are some things that I have to pay for it and I can [00:14:00] afford an additional 30. Now, if it was an additional hundred dollars, I would have been a little upset. But honestly, at this point for travel, because we have two children that require car seats. We most often have to pay for parking because to do an Uber, like the headache, you got to put the car seats in and all of that.
We often drive, so I'm just like used to it. And then I'm hearing you say Like 30 extra girl parking in Boston at Logan Airport, it's like 30 or 60 a day. I don't know how much it is, but whenever we have to pull our car out, it's between 100 and 200 for parking. So I'm, I'm not impressed. I'm not impressed by these numbers, Lisha.
So sorry that I no grace for your situation as far as I might even miss out. Here's the thing. When I used to live in LA. I never parked at the airport because I was told exactly sort of what you were saying, that the daily parking in LA was like 50 bucks because it's LA, people make higher incomes.
And so if they only charge 15, everybody and their mama and their grandma will park at the airport. So they're trying to like [00:15:00] disincentivize people and also make money as well. And so I get what you're saying. In other cities, the cost of daily parking is much higher than it is in Atlanta. Valid point.
However, I was still annoyed that the price was listed online was not the right price. That I was presented with when I pulled up, I get what you're saying. I need to pick my battles. And maybe that is a difference between like your millionaire status and my not millionaire status is that you no longer stress over small amounts of money.
So maybe, you know, myself and those listening will adopt your mindset sooner rather than later, but I hear you. Well, let me let me say so my money mishap that I was going to share is actually like chase charged me 12 for holding and for having an account open. Right? So it was 12 per account. And so I get it when it's like an unexpected expense that you get kind of angry, like, Hey, I'm doing this.
I did my research. And then now this is an additional cost that You just didn't mentally prepare for it, even if you had done your research and it was 19. And I think you still would have driven and you would have not been annoyed because it would have [00:16:00] met that expectation. It was a misalignment of expectations.
So for me, it's just like my financial to do list is so long or my to do list in general. And one of the things is we have a trust account that we've established, but I have to move now everything into the trust accounts and I haven't gotten to that point yet. And so with some of these bank accounts, this is one thing that I really hate about the bank accounts is that they charge you a fee.
fee if you don't have money coming in, or if you don't carry a certain balance and things of that nature. And so it's just like, I didn't make those moves fast enough in order to not incur that fee. So I got to think about that. Something I might to do is I need to call Chase to figure out what I need to do in order to avoid having that fee occur every month.
And of course, I'm going to ask them to reverse the fee, but I just need to make sure that it doesn't occur again. And it's probably that we just need to do a direct deposit into the account, which I had planned to do is just like. I haven't prioritized it yet because there are other things that are taking precedence.
So I get it. It's like a mismatch of your expectations and that's why you're frustrated and I get frustrated about this stuff too. So even though like, yes, we have [00:17:00] more resources, I still am very mindful of these unanticipated costs that are not serving me and trying to eliminate those as much as possible.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to be completely honest, like one of the things that made me change from using a commercial bank for most of my banking to a credit union was all of these like ancillary fees that really started to annoy me. And I think that's how a lot of these bigger banks end up making a lot of money because people like us, we're like, Oh my gosh, okay, I'm annoyed by the 5 charge per month.
Or in your case, you were annoyed by like Chase charging you like 13 for each little account that you had. Right. It's noticeable enough where it's annoying to you, but it's not high enough to motivate you to do something about it right now. And so Chase is like banking on that. And I just got tired.
Chase is not the only bank that does this. A lot of the commercial banks do this. One of the things that I did was last summer, so about a year ago, I moved a lot of my primary banking to my credit union, I moved all of that stuff to Navy Federal Credit Union because that's the credit union that I'm a part of.
And they don't have a lot of those [00:18:00] fees and a lot of those same rules and restrictions. Like I'd get annoyed when I would sign up for a new like apartment lease and I would need a money order and the commercial bank would charge me like 50 for a money order. It's like, what? It's crazy. You know, or I needed to order checks because somebody still worked in the stone age and like required a check for something, right?
These sort of things are very annoying. And I hear what you're saying. It's not necessarily sometimes the cost. It's the malalignment of expectations, right? I expected one thing and then something else happened. And so I think part of the things that I'm working on with myself is like trying not to get so upset.
When some of these changes occur, right, not my strong suit, you know, my brothers are very different than me in this regard. I remember when we were traveling in South Africa, we were eating at some place and we each were like paying with credit cards. like the guy behind the counter or the, you know, cashier or whatever was checking us out and we gave him our credit card and he swiped it and then he was like, Oh, it didn't go through, let me swipe it again.
And I was like, [00:19:00] okay, that's fine. Like it is what it is. The receipt came out, I signed it. When I look at my credit card statement, I was actually charged twice. And I remember seeing it over in South Africa and me telling my brother, like, Oh my gosh, like they charged us twice. Like, I'm like upset about it.
Not like enough where I'm going to go crying, but like enough where it's annoying. And my brother was like, you know what, Lisha, they overcharged me too, or they charged me twice too. And maybe this is what they do. Maybe he did it on accident, but he was like, you know what, I'm not going to ruin my vacation.
He was like, I worked too hard to stress over an extra 8 charge. So I'm just going to let it go. I'm not going to let it ruin my mood. Sometimes you just got to let things go. And it's a lesson that I'm trying, I'm trying to learn because let's just say that's not my natural inclination. And yeah.
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with your brother. And I think that's where my husband has helped me to move me along because he just doesn't fuss about it. And you know, the accounts is really important. So I think this gets to our financial focus. Where we talk about our [00:20:00] accounts and, you know, I'm purchasing a home and I have to open up another bank account, maybe with our new company that we're getting a mortgage from.
So, you know, I think these are some of the personal factors that we have to incorporate into our decision making.
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Lisha, do you remember that day when you've paid the last penny on your credit card debt and car loan? Yeah. It just felt so heavy and so constricting. And when I finally did pay it off, it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders because I knew [00:21:00] that next month I was going to have something. So much extra cash flow.
You know, that same narrative is something that is echoed by a lot of the clients. I have helped to pay off their debt. And I recall receiving that letter in the mail from So-Fi, it said, congratulations, your loan is paid in full. If you can identify with our story, we've got a product or a solution for you.
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[FINANCIAL FOCUS]
Dr. Lisha Taylor: All right. And now we are going to head into our [00:22:00] financial focus. And so we thought that a good financial focus for this episode would be about housing because we understand that it is the summertime or I guess late spring, however you want to think about it.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And this is usually the time when there are a lot of transitions happening, especially in physicians lives. I mean, I think the studies show that a lot of people move in the summertime just cause that's like a prime time. for people to sort of switch jobs or when they finish schooling. But I think it's even more applicable for physicians because this is sort of the end of our year, right?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: This is when medical students are graduating, residents and fellows are finishing training. And usually around this time as you're making these transitions, it could require a move. And even if you aren't moving , , Even if you are stable, this is usually around the time where most people are presented with the option to renew their lease in their apartment, or they at least start thinking about their housing situation.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: and so we thought it would be a good [00:23:00] time to sort of bring this up. There's also been a lot of. economic factors, right? Couple of years ago, interest rates were a lot lower. Everyone was buying a home. A lot of people are making a lot of profits. Now things have sort of changed. And also because we recognize that it's not necessarily one size fits all, right?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: What may be best for me as someone who's not married and does not have kids, maybe different from what may be best for you. Maybe if you are married or do have kids or thinking about doing those things really soon. And so there's a lot of changing times. In our own lives, in our economic climate, in our physician sort of career landscape.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: So we sort of figured this would be a really good time to bring up the discussion about housing.
Dr. Brittne Halford: Yeah. Lisha, I also think that, this really resonates with me , and that decision, although we are not moving because we are transitioning jobs or we're transitioning locations, but we're just moving because we want more space and it's a desire. And so I know that some of you may desire to have what [00:24:00] might be, , painted as like the. Typical goals for an American family, like first you get married and then you buy your home and then you have your children, right? But that home purchase may not be prudent right now. And as you think about this, this is some of the calculations that we had to do where are we personally? in a good position to buy a home. And then what is the market analysis? What property can we actually afford? And so when you're making this decision, I think that you have to separate those factors because they have overlap, of course, and they're interconnected. But the analysis can be very distinct. So in this episode, we're going to focus on the personal factors, what makes you a good candidate for a home purchase. And in the next episode, we're going to go through the market analysis, some of the things that you might have to consider to understand the affordability and the timing of that purchase and also [00:25:00] the price. The property. All right, Lisha. So I know, you know, you're renting and I'm sure that that was a calculated decision because that's, that's what you do, girl.
Dr. Brittne Halford: You all analysis over there. so walk us through some of the things that you started, you know, what is the starting place for someone who's considering to purchase a home versus continue to rent?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Yeah. So I think one of the really big first questions to ask yourself from a personal perspective, and one of the questions that I had to ask myself, right, was, will my life be stable over the next five years? And that really encompasses quite a few things is my life stable from a job standpoint is my life stable from a location Standpoint is my life stable from a personal life family size standpoint And the reason why I think that's really important to ask myself and for others to ask themselves is because the studies show that when you factor in the cost of buying a home, right?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: The cost of maintaining a home, the cost eventually of selling a home when you factor in all [00:26:00] of those costs. You usually need to stay in the home for about three to five years in order to break even. And so there's a lot of people on the internet that will say, Oh, you know what? I bought a house for this price and then I sold it for this price and I made X amount of profits.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Right. And it's like, okay, well, did you factor in the fact that in addition to the down payment that you paid all of those other costs that were associated, even when you bought The home for the first place, right? A lot of people think about a down payment and they don't necessarily think about all those other costs, right?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Did you think about all of the costs that you spent maintaining the home, including the fees and all of that stuff? Did you factor in the cost of the real estate agent when you sold the home? Right? So all of these costs, a lot of people tend to forget about. And even though this is not , the part where we're going to talk about all the market analysis, I do think it's important to know sort of that general rule that you need to stay in a home for about three to five years to break even.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so if you know, you need to stay in a home for three to five years in order to break even on all of those costs, you need to ask yourself, is my life going to be stable over those next three to five years? Am I [00:27:00] likely to stay in this home for at least three to five years? And that's the question that I had to ask myself.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And as I'm trying to answer it, I was like, okay, am I stable from a job perspective? I mean, yes, I'm a physician, right? So my job is, I guess, a little bit more stable than somebody in a different field, but I'm also newer at my current position. And although I like it, right. Studies show that about half of doctors leave their first job within the first one to two years.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: . And I haven't been at my job for two years. And so even though I like it, am I likely to stay at this job or could I potentially change jobs, which would then change income and change sort of that calculation. So is my job stable? Have I been at the job long enough? And for me, the answer was no. Am I committed to this area?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: I currently live in Atlanta. My family is here, so I am pretty committed to the city. But do I have a particular area in the city that I'm very committed to? Not really. I mean, I like where I live right now, but there is a chance that I could change. And I think that leads into that third factor, which is, is my [00:28:00] personal and family life stable, right?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: I'm not married. I could become married within the next year or two or whatever. And so I think that the kind of house that I would want as an unmarried person might be very different from the kind of house that I would want as a married person, right? The kind of house that I would want as a person right now who does not have children might be drastically different than the kind of house that I might want as someone with young children.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Maybe then I start thinking about school districts and do I have a yard and do I have all of this and all of that? And so I think for me, I decided to renew my lease at my apartment. Instead of by a home, because I did not feel like my life was stable over the next five years, or another way of saying that is I felt like there were a lot of drastic changes that could happen to my life over the next five years that would then drastically alter the kind of house that I would want.
Dr. Brittne Halford: Yeah. When we had to make this move to Boston. We thought that it was going to be temporary, or at least I thought that it was going to be temporary.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Your husband had different plans.
Dr. Brittne Halford: So I say that to say, you know, we've been here now for five years. We have our [00:29:00] first home and we're purchasing another home. It is difficult sometimes to predict what your plan will be. And so I know for many individuals who are thinking that, Oh, this is going to be my dream job. This is going to be my dream location. If you have not lived in that area before, then it might be prudent for you to spend a year. And then the argument might be, well, I know that I'm going to say, so that's just a year of money. of equity that I could have in that property. And I think that just requires a shift of your mindset because although we're talking about your stability and a lot of these factors, there. Can be headaches with a home purchase. There can be headaches with managing a home and you have that mental ease by being a renter. So not only just thinking about job stability, life stability, and some of the personal factors, you also [00:30:00] have to. Just consider what is my load, my cognitive load right now?
Dr. Brittne Halford: And can I actually support this decision to purchase a home? Because if you have to sell it, or if you want to hold it for a period of time, even if you're not living in the home for three to five years, you want to hold it as a rental property, then that also is going to take some time, some money in order for you to do that.
Dr. Brittne Halford: So I think specifically, if you're transitioning, give yourself time, just rent for the first year and allow yourself to have time in that job, time in the area, , so that you can really make an informed decision because sometimes it's really difficult to know.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Yeah, I agree with that. You know, I cannot tell you how many physicians would tell me, and this was especially true when I lived in California. Yeah. That Lisha, the housing prices increase so rapidly that if I don't buy now, I feel like I'm never going to be able to buy. Right. And so they sort of have this FOMO.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Like, I don't know if another opportunity is going to come [00:31:00] around or there would be people who would say, you know what? I thought I was going to rent, but I got presented with this home and I just feel like it's my dream home. I just feel like I can't wait. You know, if I know I'm going to be here, then what's the problem.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Even if I move, I can rent it. And again, these are things that sound nice on paper, but in reality, sometimes are hard to implement because the truth is, if you're thinking about using your home as a rental property, you need to evaluate it as such before you buy, right? Because , the kind of analysis that you would need to do to make it a profitable rental property that actually makes sense for your portfolio is very different than the of analysis that you do when you're buying a home to live in.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Right. And so I think sometimes people don't always factor in those things. But I just knew for me that even though I knew that I wanted to be in this city, even though, you know, eight months in or whatever, I have a job that I like, I still didn't feel like my life was as stable as I would want it to be to make such a lifelong commitment to, you know, a home.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And another way of saying that, I guess, Is that I wanted the flexibility that renting
Dr. Lisha Taylor: gives me,
Dr. Brittne Halford: Mm. Hmm.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: because right now, if [00:32:00] I decide I'm going to get married and I'm going to buy a house in five months. I can just pay a couple of thousand dollars and get out of my
Dr. Lisha Taylor: lease.
Dr. Brittne Halford: Yeah.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Right? If some incredible job opportunity opens up in another city, again, I can just pay, break my lease and up and move.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: When you purchase a home, it is not that easy to. Up and move to transition housing situations. And so I think for me, renting gives me so much more flexibility at this point in my life. And that's what I need as things are sort of influx. And I think once things settle down for me, then I'll feel a little bit more comfortable.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And that's not to say that someone should wait until they're married to buy a home or wait until they have children to buy a home. I don't believe that at all. I just think that your life needs to be in order for it to make the most economic sense.
Dr. Brittne Halford: And speaking about the economics, , you know, part of that calculation is just understanding what is your personal finance persona portfolio? Like what does that look like [00:33:00] for you? Because when we're transitioning. And, If you are a new nurse or now you're going to be a nurse practitioner or a PA, if you're moving from medical school to start your residency or transitioning from residency to attending hood, you may have some student loan debt.
Dr. Brittne Halford: You may have some consumer debt. You may have your car loans and all of that. Uh, debt is also going to modify how mortgage companies might perceive you as a potential borrower. We talked about a lot of just like the flexibility and the mental ease. If you have. a significant burden of debt already. And now you're wanting to purchase a home.
Dr. Brittne Halford: I mean, homes depending on where you are, but homes typically aren't cheap, right? large amount of debt that you are taking on. Of course, over 30 years, the payments become a little bit more manageable, but having that assessment of good of a candidate Am I for a potential loan and how [00:34:00] much of a safety net do I have established so that I can actually manage this additional load of debt?
Dr. Brittne Halford: Thinking about yourself, not only from just a numbers perspective, but also, I always say, money is really about psychology. How do you feel about your cashflow and things of that nature? Because if you get into a home and you can't get out of it, like you can just pay a couple of thousand dollars and like break your lease, right, then that might cause you to have additional financial stress.
Dr. Brittne Halford: And if there are other areas of your life that are already stressed, then maybe you are not the best candidate for a home purchase right now. Thank you.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Yeah. So I think the next question to ask yourself, once you ask yourself, you know, like, is my life stable over the next three to five years? The next question that I had to ask myself, , cause I was going through this calculation as well as can I afford to take on more debt? And one of the things I've realized is people have different definitions of, can I afford, you know, bank will oftentimes loan you more money than maybe you can actually afford once you [00:35:00] factor in the monthly payment and all of that.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: But I think for me personally, this really speaks to me. , because I was really thinking about how much debt do I currently have? And I find that a lot of, doctors get really comfortable with debt, like between their, you know, multiple six figures of student loan debt, and then they buy a car and they get an auto loan and then they by a house and like, before you know it, they're like half a million dollars in debt before they really, you know, are a year into practice.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And I knew that I didn't want to be like that because I think a lot of physicians when they get themselves into that level of debt, then they start to feel trapped in their jobs, right? They start to feel like they have to take a job that pays the absolute most amount of money instead of a job that they would enjoy.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And then they end up working, working, working and burning out and then feeling stuck. And so I knew that I didn't want to be in that position. And so for me, it was like, okay, well, let me take inventory of the debt that I currently have. And you know, I don't have any personal loans car loans, but for me, I do have a substantial amount of student loans.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And although I think I talked about this before, most of my student loans are PSLF eligible. So I'm in that program to get my loans regimen. There's a small chunk of [00:36:00] loans that are not PSLF eligible. And then I have to actually pay down. And so for me, it was like really important to pay down those other loans.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And I was like, okay, cause I know that I'm going to get. The large chunk forgiven, but I want to pay off this other chunk of loans because right now it's eating into my monthly cashflow. And I think that I'll have more money left over each month to then spend on a house or spend on a mortgage payment or spend on the property taxes and the homeowner's insurance and all of these other things involved with owning a home.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Once I get rid of this debt load, or at least cut it down significantly. And so for me, it was just like, I would like to have less debt before I sign up for a mortgage with multiple, more six figures. And, you know, part of that is like what you said, right? The bank may not even loan you as much based on how much debt you already have as physicians.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: I think we're in a better place than most other people, but there's still other factors that they consider. And if you are a doctor 99 locums work, sometimes that can be even more challenging because lot of the mortgage companies want to know that you And when you're not a W2 [00:37:00] employee with a contract that states how much you're going to make each month, sometimes that can be a little bit more challenging.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: , and so some positions would just. need to work longer anyway to even be able to get approved for a mortgage. And, you know, the studies show that a lot of physicians are in a similar place, right? We early career physicians, at least either have substantial student loans, right? Over 70 percent of medical students graduate with multiple six figures in student loans.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: You know, the study showed that a quarter of doctors, 25 percent of physicians still have credit card debt and credit card balances that they haven't paid off. And so you think about some of this stuff, right? The high interest consumer debt, right? or the car loans or the student loans. It's like, is now the time to buy a million dollar home?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: It's now the time to take out 500, 000 of more debt. And so for me, it was like, I didn't feel like now was a good time to take out more debt in next year, two years from now, three years from now, that answer may be different. But that second question to ask yourself that I had to ask myself is , can I afford to take on more debt?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Is now a good time for me to do so.
Dr. Brittne Halford: Yeah. What I hear you saying also is just kind of an [00:38:00] evaluation of your risk tolerance. And I think sometimes we forget about thinking about our risk tolerance when it comes to some purchases that we might have. Oftentimes we. Consider risk in the form of investments. But I really think that evaluating and appraising our risk tolerance is imperative for every single money decision that we make, including a home purchase. And also understanding what your goals are. We talked about goals and past episodes when you're paying off your debt, right? And establishing those SMART goals and those B HACs Was a home purchase part of that, financial goal portfolio? Is it actually going to be prioritized compared to some of those other goals and what is the hierarchy of that? That is very imperative because like you said, if you have a home purchase, then you're likely going to have to delay completion of some of those other goals like paying off your credit card debt. Or paying off your student loan debt, because now you've added another factor [00:39:00] into play here. And even if you've already done those calculations of what would be my monthly mortgage, what would be my monthly rent, and it seems like the mortgage might be cheaper or less expensive than the rent. There are oftentimes hidden costs that are unexpected. And when you have those hidden costs, you're going to have some reserve to be able to pay for the stuff. And that's why we really say to prioritize your emergency fund it's. If something happens, say we live in a condo, Lisha, and, , this is not as big of a headache as some of the other headaches that I've had in, in this home purchasing journey, but you know, I go into the laundry room and I see a drop, then I see another drop.
Dr. Brittne Halford: Okay. I'm like, hold on. This is
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Wait, a drop from the ceiling. Oh no, a
Dr. Brittne Halford: Yes, yes, yes. A leak. from the ceiling. Yes. Literally the people upstairs, they had no awareness of that. So I went upstairs and I said, Hey, there's water leaking from my [00:40:00] ceiling and it's in the laundry room. Can you go to your laundry room and do an appraisal of what our potential sources of this link in their water heater? So They were renters upstairs. I reached out to the landlord and he's like, okay, yeah, I'll take care of it. I'll pay for your repairs. And then he's like, no, actually go through your insurance company. So I had to submit a claim to my insurance company. And anytime you're submitting a claim, you know, there's going to be a deductible that you have to pay. up front before they're going to give any reimbursement or pay for the additional expenses. That was a cost that of course we can afford because we have a decent size emergency fund. But if you, if you haven't calculated in that cost, that unexpected cause, and you just think about the mortgage, the property tax, the property insurance, it can break you. And if that happens, One time, twice, three times, depending on the type of home that you purchased, [00:41:00] then that's going to be devastating, not only for the money in the bank, but also for your psychology of was this the right decision when you're renting a home? You call a landlord, somebody else that comes out of somebody else's bank account, not yours. So I think understanding your risk tolerance for some of those emergencies can really, really, really be helpful in making this decision. Yeah.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: of rich, but you still, so Brady has a lot more money for. Inevitable repairs. And so to watch her scramble, cause I can see her on my screen to watch her scramble and how she's going to say that was, funny to me.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: But anyway, I think the point still stands, right? Which is that third question that I had to ask myself that I think other people need to ask themselves is, do I have money for inevitable repairs? I don't know anyone who has purchased a home and not had to spend money in some way within the first year or two to fix it.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Fixing something that they didn't think was broken, fixing something that they didn't think would break, redoing something that [00:42:00] they didn't initially like, whether it's they're redoing their kitchen or remodeling their kitchen, painting the walls, getting new light fixtures. You'd be surprised at how expensive those things are, you know, things break or stop working.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so having money in reserves, having a beefed up emergency fund is key. And you know, I don't want it to sound like we are just poopooing home ownership, right. Or only focusing on the negatives, because I do think that there are positives with home ownership. And I think that's why a lot of us desire it so badly, right?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: One, it's like that feeling of adulting. It's like, I feel like one of the signs of adulting as a young adult. , it's like that, like I bought a house, like everybody. I. I want to say everybody, but a lot of people want to buy homes because of that. Now, my friends who live in California, they're like, Lisha, that was never a dream that we thought was realistic, but for my friends on the East coast, especially in the Southeast, , owning a home, I think , is a sign of adulting.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so there's that desire there. There's the autonomy that you can sort of do what you want without having to ask for permission. you want to. Remodel your kitchen or paint your walls or get new light fixtures or whatever. You can sort of do what you want and you don't [00:43:00] have to ask for permission.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Oftentimes people get more space, whether they have a dog or kids or whatever, they want to have the ability to build equity. , and so I think there are a lot of benefits of homeownership. I think what I'm trying to say, and Brittne, I think what you are trying to say is that it's not bad to desire to own a home, but you want to make sure that you're doing it at the optimal time.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Because if you buy something that you want at the worst time, it can sort of add financial stress and be a source of financial strain instead of being that joy that you thought it was going to be. And so for me, it was, do I have a big enough emergency fund? And being completely honest, even as somebody who is pretty money savvy and who has been investing for a long time and all of that, my answer to that question per my own personal standards was no, like I spent a lot of time in training.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so when I was in training, I didn't have the opportunity to save up as big of an emergency fund as I would have liked. And now that I'm in attending, my monthly expenses are higher. And so the amount that I would need and my emergency fund has now [00:44:00] increased. Right. And so it's like me thinking about, okay, how much money do I spend on average per month when I factor in the amount of money I'm spending on my student loans to pay that amount of money I'm spending on rent and bills and all of these things, and then do I have, you know, the first mark, I think it's three months and then six months or more.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: In cash, and it's like, well, I'm getting close to that amount, but if I went and bought a home, I would then have to deplete such a large chunk of my emergency fund, maybe even the whole thing in order to even make that purchase. And then I wouldn't have money left over in reserves for some of these repairs that we were talking about.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: So for me, it was like, do I have enough money in an emergency fund for inevitable repairs. And so as we're thinking about this financial focus personal factors that are involved with buying a home, I had to ask myself these 3 questions. Is my life stable over the next 5 years?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: I didn't think so as much from a personal standpoint. Would I prefer sort of more flexibility that renting offers me? That answer was yes. , can I afford to take on more debt? I probably could get approved for a mortgage, but when I factor in my student [00:45:00] loans and things like that, I just really wanted to pay down a larger chunk first.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And then that last question that we were talking about is, do I have enough money and an emergency fund for inevitable repairs? And I felt like for me personally, The answer was no. Now, if I were married, if I had a partner where we shared expenses and like, also made a high income, then maybe that answer would be different, right.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: But I'm not married. And so for me, a lot of this sort of falls on me and I wanted to mention that because I think I'm not the only one where that may be the case, whether you're the breadwinner in. Your partnership or you are not partnered at this time. ' cause sometimes it feels different, right? When you're partnered with someone where you're sharing expenses, there's sort of this like ease and you knowing that there's another person working towards the same financial goals.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: But when you don't have that, sometimes it can feel, at least from my personal experience , a little bit more pressure. Right? And so I think once I get married that calculation will change. But right now it's like, okay. I need to actually make sure that I'm doing my due diligence and being fiscally responsible.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And for me, answering these personal questions, I just [00:46:00] felt like, okay, maybe now's not the right time, but I'll reevaluate next year.
Dr. Brittne Halford: Yeah. so glad that you highlight the differences between. being partnered and going into this as a dual income versus as a single income. I recently had a conversation with one of my colleagues. He's been working as a hospitalist for 10 years and he's like, I would love to purchase a home. This is the area that I've been living in. I would love to stay in this area, but I have not been able to amass the amount for a down payment. And even as physicians, I know that there are physicians loans and you might say, okay, well I got money in the bank, you know, I could get a 0 percent down payment. But in addition to that, You have to think about how is that going to affect the mortgage payment. And when you're saving up and you're understanding your risk tolerance, inevitable repairs is one thing . then there's disability. That's another thing. And we haven't really got on disability insurance in this podcast.
Dr. Brittne Halford: We'll talk about it in more detail in future episodes. But [00:47:00] if something were to happen. To you as a single person or one of your partners, if you're partnered, what would happen to the finances? And you want to make sure that you have enough for inevitable repairs and enough for life circumstances. So I would say that you need a more sizable emergency fund if you want to purchase a which could allow you to at least have Three to six months of those expenses, if something were to happen to one of, the persons or to you, , who is paying for that.
Dr. Brittne Halford: this calculation, even for people who are later in the career, depending on where you are, can still be quite difficult. to make because of just the financial circumstances. And it clearly we're purchasing a home. We have a home and we're purchasing another home. So, you know, there is some value in a home purchase, but, really think that it has [00:48:00] to be thoughtful. The numbers have to work out. You have to make sure that you're a good candidate and you really explore what are your financial goals, what are your personal goals, and if you would be able to achieve those if you may be delayed for a year or six months in order to make yourself a better candidate.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Yeah, yeah. So we agree with that. Those are some of the personal factors, at least to consider when deciding, do you want to buy a home or keep renting? And let me also throw in there. Just because you're renting doesn't mean you have to be in an apartment. Oftentimes people really get this impetus because they don't want to live in an apartment.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And it's like, well, you know, you can rent a house,
Dr. Lisha Taylor: right? And so I just want to throw that out there because I think sometimes it's painted as a apartment house,
Dr. Lisha Taylor: right? And it's not necessarily that simple. and so, yeah, stay tuned for our part two, where we're going to talk about some of these financial factors and economic factors to consider when you are making that decision.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: But for now, we're going to get into one of our favorite segments, which is our fun money segment.
[FUN MONEY]
Dr. Brittne Halford: Mm. So, Lisha, I would love to hear, [00:49:00] because my fun money is going to be fun for someone else, not necessarily for me. So, what are you doing for fun?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: , you know, we started this podcast with me talking about the sports conference and how I absolutely loved it, had a blast and that was something fun that I was doing with my money. Not necessarily paying for the conference 'cause I'm getting it reimbursed 'cause CME, but I . I always make it a point when I'm at these conferences to sort of hang out with people that I haven't seen in a while and I love to eat.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so usually these hangouts happen. in bars or new restaurants. And so that is what I have been spending my money on is trying out new restaurants in different cities and things like that. And that really came to a head when I was at this conference. , you know, I went to UCLA for fellowship. I think it was the best sports medicine fellowship in the country.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Clearly I'm biased, but. I mean, facts are facts.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Um,
Dr. Brittne Halford: hmm.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: and I absolutely love my UCLA colleagues, like hands down, incredible experience. I hang out with them whenever I get a chance, whenever we are around each other, it is just a good, great time. [00:50:00] and we have this sort of like family mentality that the more experienced folks, the older folks always take care of the younger folks.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so we have this rule, sort of unwritten rule that fellows do not pay for anything. the fellows love it every time, right? They're like, they know when they're going out, like your drinks will be paid for. Your food will be paid for the most part. Like sometimes will let them pay for portions of their food because we know that they're going to get it reimbursed from like a conference expense, but especially drinks when we're out, that sort of thing.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And you know, I'm an attending. And so, yeah. I was with some of my fellows and we were at the bar and I was like, what do you want? Let me get your drinks. Let me get your drinks. so, I got their drinks and then I saw that they wanted another drink. They went up to the bar and I was like, nope, I got you.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: No worries.
Dr. Brittne Halford: And they went up for a third?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: It is what it is at this point. , but, , cause we, let's say we have a good time at UCLA. but anyway, so I'm buying their drinks. Right. And then one of my attendings, when I was a fellow there was like, Lisha, I'm gonna get your drink. And I was like, Really? I'm an attending.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And they're like, Nope, Nope. I got you. And so there's this like culture of like. The older people, the more experienced [00:51:00] people sort of pay. And even when I was a fellow there, whenever, we would be at a clinic site that didn't have like a cap associated with it, our attendings would buy us lunch, like, every time.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: , and I was like, thinking of myself as a fellow, like. Man, this is kind of expensive, but they all were always happy to do it. And it was something that we just really looked forward to of saying like, wow, our attendings really take care of us. And now that I'm in attending, I'm sort of paying it forward.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: And so I've been spending my money, basically treating my fellows who apparently had a great time with lots of drinks,
Dr. Brittne Halford: Well, that is so fun. I don't think I've ever had an attending buy me drinks. I've definitely
Dr. Brittne Halford: had them, and no, I don't think
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Sports. See, this is what happens in the sports world.
Dr. Brittne Halford: I've definitely had them, you know, by, dinner or I guess drinks. It's not like an alcoholic beverage, but like a coffee and things of that nature.
Dr. Brittne Halford: So that's really cool that you get to celebrate and have fun with fellows and like a non academic setting. I have been spending my money on other people as well, who [00:52:00] are less senior than I am.
Dr. Brittne Halford: And those people are named Brooke and Kevin Jr. or
Dr. Lisha Taylor: So your
Dr. Brittne Halford: KJ. Yes. So right around. The beginning of May is, , KJ's birthday. , his birthday is May 6th, actually the same day as my younger brother's birthday. So it's really, really, fun to see their personalities and if they're similar or not, you know, I don't know if you believe in the whole Zodiac stuff, nonetheless. he's having a PAW Patrol birthday party and I've been
Dr. Brittne Halford: by, he loves PAW Patrol, girl. He was like Marshall for Halloween and. so we're having that birthday party and because my KJ's birthday is in the spring and Brooke's birthday is in the fall, I always try to find an indoor setting. We sometimes do it outdoors, but you just never know and in Boston if there's going to be rain or not.
Dr. Brittne Halford: So we're doing it indoors and I've been buying decorations and things for other people and Brooke has a dance recital and I'm really, really excited about this one in particular because my two best friends are flying in. Yes, I know. This is the [00:53:00] first time that all three of us be together since. I don't know. Maybe like my
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Are they flying in for Brooke's recital?
Dr. Lisha Taylor: Wow. Should I be a better friend? I definitely do not fly in , for my friend's kids recitals, but I don't know. Is this like in the friend handbook? What's,
Dr. Lisha Taylor: what stage of friendship is expected?
Dr. Brittne Halford: This is the first one. She's had three recitals so far or four. So this is the first one that they're flying in for. I'm really excited that they're coming and our neighbor who lives below us. She doesn't have any children. She's also attending Brooks recital. So I'm buying everybody's recital tickets.
Dr. Brittne Halford: So I'm really, really excited to have, you know, so many people attending and to have my best friends in the city, uh, we'll get into some type of craziness. I've already asked my husband if I can have like a girl's night. So I'm really excited for that too. So stay tuned people. There might be some money mistakes on the end of this friendship.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: I'm happy for you. You know, what, what do they say? Like your kids are your broke best friends. And so you, so you basically have your broke best friends that you're buying [00:54:00] things for. And then your other best friends are flying in town to see your broke best friends perform. You got to show me photos from the, birthday party.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: and want to see Brooke and her little recital outfit. and all the things, so feel free to update us.
Dr. Brittne Halford: very good. I will, for sure.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: All right. So that's it for today's episode. Hopefully you got something out of it and we're as inter trained as I was. stay tuned for part two, because we are going to start talking about some of the economic factors and market factors, to consider whenever you are deciding whether you want to, buy a home or keep renting.
Dr. Lisha Taylor: But for now, that's it. stay tuned and we can't wait to come back to you next week.
Hey, money, best friend, we want to buy you a drink on this show. We are all about spilling the tea on our finances and our personal lives, but we also want to share a little bit more tea with you. Basically, we're trying to give you a free drink on us. All you have to do in order to put your name in this drawing for a free drink.
Is to leave a review, hopefully you'll give us five stars and share this podcast with others that you know, whenever you wait and review the [00:55:00] podcast, it just makes it easier for other people who maybe haven't heard of us before to find us, right? And review, subscribe to the podcast and don't forget to share with your girlfriend.
Cheers.
Hello everybody, it's me Brooke. I'm recording a little disclaimer for my mommy, Dr. Brittne Halford and her friend, Dr. Lisha Taylor. Just so you know, they're not financial advisors, tax professionals, lawyers. financial planners. Everything you hear is for education and entertainment. It's not strict financial advice, you know.
So use your best judgment. Chat with a top professional. And all those other people that you need to talk to. Thanks for tuning in today. Keep cruising on your journey to wealth and wellness. [00:56:00] Buh bye.
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